by * Before the Internet
November 17, 2021
Continuing the series with Johnny, Dave and Jay… But first, a big-picture observation on Excellent Media Experiences.
In the analog, “Three Channels + Some UHF” days we were passive audiences to a broader “cast” of program material.
- Today, clicks and instant feedback (social media comments or Likes) often determine the broadcast material that we consume. Viewership data and active audiences actually influence those decisions.
- Back then, the flow of information was interstitial. I get today’s paper, and tomorrow another edition arrives; if I’d like to see a national newscast I must sit down in front of the set at 5:30 p.m. We made the effort to go to the material.
Now, media creators (and private citizens) publish “content” that they make, 24 hours a day, to screens/devices that go with us wherever we are. We manage our own subscriptions and apps and the individual Daily Me streams that affirm the world as we see it. With material that follows us.
Late Night TV – (Note: Leaving SNL out of this. For SNL thoughts, click here.)
A close friend once summed it up: During the 1970s, when you were drifting off to sleep in your bed, to the sound of your parents down the hall laughing at Johnny Carson’s monologue… Right there was the sound of a happy childhood.
And you knew you’d arrived when you finally earned permission to stay up and watch. Nearly 7,000 times over a 29-year span until 1992 Carson, sidekick Ed McMahon and “Tonight Show” bandleader Doc Severinson were fixtures on screens in American households following the late local news.
Produced out of NBC in Burbank, “The Tonight Show” drew an average of 6.5 million nightly viewers in 1991, the final full year Carson hosted. Contrast that with Jimmy Fallon’s current incarnation of “Tonight,” also the time slot ratings leader, which drew 1.5 million viewers in October 2021.
Wearing a blazer, sporting a sunburn and enjoying a Pall Mall, Carson was “Seventies Man cool.” A quick wit and a great listener with his celebrity guests, he was nearly as funny when the monologue jokes bombed as when they killed.
(There is a Mighty Carson Art Players medieval-themed skit called, “The Black Shield of Frelman.” I have no significant point to make here. Just… awesome title!!)
On Monday nights a few years ago, Turner Classic Movies network ran edited, 15-minute segments of “Tonight” 1-on-1 sitdowns – footage of Carson with stars like William Holden, Liz Taylor, Burt Reynolds, Mel Brooks, Henry Fonda, etc. Great stuff from a time when people just went on talk shows… to talk. No movie plug, no world-saving actions to cite. Just conversation.
It was how celebrities cultivated an offstage persona. Then, talk-show chats were longer and more relaxed. Because of this, Carson could ‘zing’ the guest or ad-lib. This was his gift — draw out the interview subject and prime the pump for that potential unplanned moment, or unexpected gem of a comment.
The show ran its course, and then some, and by the time it was sunsetting SNL and others were poking great fun at the “out of it” lack of hipness and the clunky monologue jokes of Carson and McMahon. Carson pressed on. And he went out on his terms, May 22, 1992, in one of television’s most memorable goodbyes. (monologue at 3:15 and farewell at 58:15) He walked away, and stayed away, until his passing in 2005 at age 79.
“Late Night with David Letterman” — With the February 1982 addition of “Late Night with David Letterman,” executive producer Johnny Carson along with NBC Executives scored a hit in the 12:30 ET slot with a second late-night hour: David Letterman and his irreverent, insider humor, which was aimed at younger adults / collegiate audiences. (During the 1991 ratings year, the show averaged 3.2 million viewers.)
At its peak from 1985 to 1989, Late Night was the most disruptive, inventive and downright authority-challenging comedy show anyone had ever seen. Letterman’s hipper than Hollywood comedy persona, and the show he built, was about mocking celebrity and media right down to the fact that the production was based out of NBC New York (where Carson began in ’62), and not Burbank.
Every time I watch old “Late Night” episodes I’m reminded not only of how original and unconventional the early Dave humor was, but also how talented Paul Shaffer and The World’s Most Dangerous Band were. Late Night’s house band could play anything and play behind any musical guest. On an early date with then-Christi Clark, she and I saw “Shafe” and the band perform at Chicago’s Vic Theater.
“Tomorrow” — From 1973-1982 the one-on-one interview program “Tomorrow with Tom Snyder” drew a quirky cult following peaking with Snyder’s interviews of John Lennon, The Sex Pistols, or Charles Manson. (I remember Dan Aykroyd’s spot-on SNL impersonation of Snyder more clearly than the real thing.) Between 1995 and 1999, David Letterman revived Snyder’s extended-conversation format in “The Late Late Show” (1:30 a.m. Eastern), a timeslot that begat the similar, “Later with Bob Costas” in the early 90s.
Guest- and content-wise, Dick Cavett was the Carson-era counterculture/counterprogram alternative. No other mainstream entity would even give consideration to play host to someone like Gore Vidal or Angela Davis. On ABC from 1969-75 Cavett himself was an interesting, offbeat persona; well-spoken, self-deprecating… and self-impressed. (Were you aware that he attended Yale? He would be the first to say so.)
The Late Night Wars. With the impending retirement of Carson in 1991, the coveted 11:30 p.m. NBC time slot was coming open but with rivals Jay Leno and Letterman each pushing to get it.
Originally considered the heir to Johnny Carson’s legacy by none other than Carson himself, Dave had already put in eight years at NBC doing the 12:30 am “Late Night.”
Letterman was prickly*, reclusive and loved bashing NBC on the air. (He is, after all, the inspiration for Krusty the Klown.) Leno, used to working 200+ nights a year on the road, was a die-hard pleaser who tirelessly lobbied NBC executives and especially NBC affiliates.
Dave was Talent. Jay was a diplomat — and Jay got the gig. (Turns out NBC had signed a secret deal with Leno, some time earlier promising the job to Leno when Carson departed.)
Dave moved to CBS to host the new ‘Late Show,’ which would compete head-to-head over the next two decades. During 1994 Leno averaged 5.6 million viewers. Letterman at CBS settled into a viewership of around 4 million for most of its run.
Leno, who as a standup had been an highly anticipated recurring guest of Dave over at Late Night, compromised his edgy humor once he got to NBC. In short, Jay, the show, and comic material were too bland. I didn’t watch.
Dave lost his fastball sometime after the show moved to CBS. Still, he displayed flashes of the former greatness, and was capable of going on a 2-week ‘relevance’ streak annually for a few years (example: shows and monologues post-September 11, 2001).
Maybe Dave prevailed in the Cool factor, but Jay won the war.
The current picture – Popular shows today within the late night talk show genre include The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, The Late Late Show with James Corden, Late Night with Seth Meyers and Jimmy Kimmel Live!
Audiences have waned, in part because time-shifting viewers no longer watch the broadcast when they can simply catch up later using social media. Lower viewership is also due to the many streaming, social media and YouTube options for other entertainment.
“I’m sure ABC would love it if my show appealed to everyone. I don’t think that world exists anymore and I’m not comfortable in it.” -Funnyman Jimmy Kimmel, the “best” of the current class of late-night talkers.
A final few points need to be made regarding Then and Now.
Late night TV is another one of those institutions that used to command a lot of respect among Americans. It was one of those things that your friends gathered to view together (or at least knew about).
Nobody watches these shows anymore that used to be huge cultural forces. Letterman’s final broadcast was May 20, 2015 but the reality is that the era of the late night talkers ended probably 10-12 years earlier. Hey, it happens: what was once a prominent part of the moment is now commodity.
Carson poked fun at politicians. All politicians. If you slipped up, he was going to make a joke at your expense. Johnny specifically avoided politics with guests and kept it light in the monologue. Leno was non-commital. Dave’s political barbs, such as they were then, would be more of the non-sequitur variety.
It wasn’t partisan; it was comedy. It was the job. Seeing the above photo when it was new pointed out to me how one-sided and political all of the latter-day hosts are. Would it kill even one of these guys to just be funny — with *any public figure* — in the arena who is richly deserving of a shot?
Late night TV used to unite culture and give viewers watercooler discourse. Overtaken by the immediacy of screens and streams, these shows today have instead become an ideological echo chamber, latenight group therapy for a dwindling viewership.
Other entrants of note — After The Arsenio Hall Show began in 1989 and was a decent hit in the ratings, drawing a 2 share, Tribune Entertainment tapped Dennis Miller to do a talk show that debuted in January, 1992. Due to booking pressures stemming from “Tonight Show” restrictions, which affected most other shows, Miller’s cerebral humor alone proved insufficient to sustain the program. The show couldn’t get guests. However, Miller went on in 1994 to the successful, “Dennis Miller Live” on HBO which had a nine-year run earning several Emmys.
• The Magic Hour (June 1998–September 1998) starring Earvin “Magic” Johnson – syndicated by 20th Television – “Aww Craig!”
• The Pat Sajak Show (January 1989 – April 1990) — Funny to think TV Boys would take a look at a daytime/game-show host and say, “he’s got a following — let’s do it!”
• The Larry Sanders Show (1992-1998) — Running at the height of the talk-show wars, Garry Shandling’s brilliant HBO sendup of the genre carried with it real-life irony. Shandling had been approached on numerous occasions to potentially host an actual late-night talk show.
The Larry Sanders Show chronicles the daily life of neurotic, narcissist host Larry (Garry Shandling), irascible producer Arthur “Artie” (Rip Torn), buffoon sidekick Hank Kingsley (Jeffrey Tambor) and their interactions with celebrities playing themselves, conniving network executives and others.
* * * * *
* — What is it about old talk show hosts? Jack Paar had a nervous breakdown. Steve Allen became insufferable. David Letterman, the person, is a topic I could write volumes about:
Soon after Jay Leno got the Tonight Show, Dave’s willingness to push into new comedy places and to push limits subsided. Over at CBS he still showed plenty of comedy chops initially. But over time, the material plateaued.
He was very fortunate to sidestep a major scandal. (In fact you could argue he was the final entertainer embroiled in a fiasco to escape the wrath of the ‘MeToo’ era which began then.) In the late going (2010s) Dave became a partisan hack, as his interviews and monologues revealed. Perhaps this was as an effort to siphon audience [and relevance] from Jon Stewart, The Daily Show’s fake-newsman.
Letterman will turn 75 next spring. Recent appearances with Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld reveal that Dave has become a therapy-driven revisionist. Speaking with Stern, he disowns his former self, adding that he cannot bear to watch his old shows:
“I am a completely different person now, mature, would be so much better equipped to deal with all of this now.” He is obsessed with finality, and seemingly will not be satisfied until he destroys every last pleasant memory any of us have of him.
It was a hell of a run, though. More than a quarter century after its peak, the “Late Night with David Letterman” episodes on YouTube are worth checking out.
Letterman’s creation remains groundbreaking material in comedy TV. And it was appointment viewing for TwentySomething me.
Stuart Wade 
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